** This thread discusses the Content article: Lay Off Dan Werner **

I don't think he's a bad player, I just think he needs to take less shots from beyond the arc (especially with plenty of time on the shot clock)

Its not that Dan can't make the shots, but he is afraid to shoot. How many times has Dan not taken a shot that is plenty open because he is afraid to miss. If he had the confidence he needed maybe more of those shots would fall. Definitely not helped by the friendly fire. This guy has given his heart and body for the Gators, I wish more fans would appreciate it.

I think Chandler Parsons should start over Werner. He is shooting 49 percent from the field compared to Werner 37 percent, a better three point shooter(36.5 to Werner 32.0), second leader rebounder and fourth leader scorer on the team. And this is all with him playing less minutes then Werner. I think Werner is a hard working player, but I feel Parsons has some talent and should start. He was not a five star recruit from high school for nothing.

I think the confidence angle is worth discussing. He does pass up open looks- but a lot of the reasons he was a big prospect, like Christian Drejer and some of these other guys- was because of his passing. I think the answer is somewhere in between. Werner has shown he's bought into what the coaches tell him more than some of these other guys- and I bet we have plenty of team meetings where they are telling us not to take the first moderately open shot we see.

It's also interesting to note the times that we come out of a timeout and we run a set play for Werner for a 3- one shoot early in the shot clock v NC State comes to mind. Is it because Billy D thinks he can get him a better look than he could for Boynton/Walker off the in-bounds? Or is Billy D trying to give Werner some of the confidence he lacks- as you correctly pointed out?

One note from the LSU game:

Did Billy luck out on this decision with Werner's "sickness" before the LSU game? No doubt he was sick, and his minutes were limited (20 v LSU instead of 33 v UK, for example- for those curious, Parsons minutes were almost identical, despite getting the start- 27 v 28). But what I mean is, does he get to say 'we played a little better with Parsons in the starting lineup, so I'll try it out a while longer- even when Werner gets healthy'?

I'm sorry about being so negative regarding Dan, but I used to wonder aloud why he would get off the bench before Marreese Speights when they were both Freshmen. We won the championship that year, but it was obvious that Werner was either overwhelmed or that he couldn't rise to the level of competition presented to him. My problem with Dan isn't that he was overwhelmed then. My problem is that he's consistently overwhelmed NOW. I remember Donovan having guys maturing as upperclassmen when it comes to playing basketball. Where has Dan matured or gotten better over the years? Sure, he hustles, but I can't understand why he hasn't been a leader when it comes to doing the little things to help the Gators win. I mean, why do he and Tyus seem incapable of blocking out? I think Tyus and Werner were outrebounded by a 5'11" dude when we lost to USA. That stuff is inexcusable when you have a senior on the floor. I know that a lot of people don't share my opinion, but I can't stomach a senior looking like he's lost ALL THE TIME. Hustle is great, but upperclassmen should know how to hustle with purpose. I don't see that with this Gator team at all. Remember when the 1989 team lost key members and still fought all the way to the SEC championship game? They had upperclassmen that could lead, and Dan just hasn't been able to do that for whatever reason. It's troubling to me that Billy isn't getting character guys that matter on this team anymore. Guys like Greg Stolt, Brent Wright, Matt Bonner, Adrian Moss and Chris Richard just aren't here anymore and it's sad.

Will, thanks for the thought-out response. I do appreciate the feedback. However, I am going to have to disagree with you on a few points. After all, isn't that what sports sites like this one) are for- debating things of this nature?

Will4of5 wrote:

QUOTE:
I used to wonder aloud why he would get off the bench before Marreese Speights when they were both Freshmen.

You realize they play different positions, right? Speights was behind Noah, Horford, and Richard. That didn't leave him a lot of minutes.

Dan Werner has been playing out of position- and, thanks to Kadji injury, and departures from last season of Vargas and Chaney- he will continue to throughout his entire career. He's put aside any personal ambition he could have had- remember, he was Mr. Basketball for New Jersey- for the good of the tem.

Werner is not a good center. But someone has to play there, and he's taking one for the team- not giving up, not giving less effort, not transferring to Stevens Tech (or other random small New Jersey school).

Will4of5 wrote:

QUOTE:
I remember Donovan having guys maturing as upperclassmen when it comes to playing basketball. Where has Dan matured or gotten better over the years.

I remember when we used to have upper classmen, period. I really hope we can fight through the depth issues and get an NCAA berth, because the team that should (SHOULD being a big word here) will add some talent- but almost more importantly, have some experience (meaning developed talent).

Will4of5 wrote:

QUOTE:
Remember when the 1989 team lost key members and still fought all the way to the SEC championship game? They had upperclassmen that could lead, and Dan just hasn't been ale to do that for whatever reason.

Yep, I was in the stands at those home games. In 1988-89, we won the regular season SEC title. The exit from the program of Norm Sloan and Vernon Maxwell and the impending probation are sort of hard to forget. But back to your point- it's not like we had an awful season and "leadership" to us to that SEC final. We had the top seed in the SEC Tournament, based on our performance during the whole season... I realize we squeaked out a 1-point win over UGA and a 5 point win over UT (only need to win 2 games to reach the SEC Finals when you get a bye)... but it's a little easier to claim "leadership" when you are handed the best matchups possible (as a 1 seed). I assume that same "leadership" was also responsible for the beating we took from Colorado State in the first round of the NCAAs?

Note for our other readers: 1989-90 is NOT the season he was referring to. That's the season that had the biggest impression on me as a young Gator fan in the stands. We won 7 games! SEVEN! Fans openly booed Don Devoe- who had the interim head coach tag all year- during pregame inrtoductions. Also, Dwayne Schintzus' Rat Tail is always a possibility for the name of my NCAA bracket. And the story of him spitting on a woman and throwing a rear-view mirror (which he broke off a car) at her was just crazy. If I ever write an entire book, instead of just a series of blogs, it will be on Florida basketball in the 80s. Maybe the football team, too. We just don't get stories that wacky any more- sports is bigger business, and everything is under more scrutiny.

Will4of5 wrote:

QUOTE:
It's troubling to me that Billy isn't getting character guys that matter on this team anymore. Guys like Greg Stolt, Brent Wright, Matt Bonner, Adrian Moss and Chris Richard just aren't here anymore and it's sad.

Billy did a major house cleaning- whether entirely by his design or otherwise- this past offseason. He seems to really enjoy the group he has, and they are actually interested in playing basketball on both ends of the floor. Don't give up on this team yet. They play a different brand of basketball than some other editions of the Florida Gators- but that doesn't mean it's not winning basketball.

Oh, and lay off Dan Werner.

QUOTE:
Oh, and lay off Dan Werner.

Not gonna happen. Let's debate...

QUOTE:
You realize they play different positions, right? Speights was behind Noah, Horford, and Richard. That didn't leave him a lot of minutes.

The point of my argument wasn't about the position the players played as much as it was about the obvious difference in the level of play. In 06-07, Speights PLAYED BETTER than Werner. That was why I wondered why Werner would be the first underclassmen off the bench. Werner was only consistent at looking bad, whereas Speights would come off the bench and play solid.

QUOTE:
I assume that same "leadership" was also responsible for the beating we took from Colorado State in the first round of the NCAAs?

My only problem with this statement is your implication that we should have expected more from a team that lost their best player. Back in those days, I was happy when we did ANYTHING positive, so getting blasted in the first round of the NCAAs was much better than not going at all, which we used to do a lot of back in those days. Did I feel burned by Vernon? Yes, but I was just happy that my favorite football college actually had a team that could qualify for the tournament (my favorite college basketball team is JU.)

QUOTE:
They play a different brand of basketball than some other editions of the Florida Gators- but that doesn't mean it's not winning basketball.

Pray tell, what winning basketball are you seeing? Quick threes and constant turnovers on offense? Defensive zones that make it impossible to rebound effectively? Hapless transition defense? Watching UF play the last two years hurts just as bad as the root canal I had to have a couple years ago. My point is really simple: there are too many guys with a lot of playing time on this team for them to play so poorly collectively.

My point on them playing "winning basketball" is this: they are now 2-2 in the SEC, and 13-5 overall. They are 2-0 in the ACC, 1-1 in the Big East, and 1-0 in the Big Ten. All these things will help them when tourney bids are handed out.

It's a different brand of basketball than we're used to seeing out of most of the Donovan era. Heading into last night's game, they were leading the SEC in total defense (at around 60 ppg- I haven't looked, but I suppose giving up 66 last night didn't really change that).

We have real roster limitations (depth, talent, missing 1s and 5s). I'm not saying we're an awesome team.

But, we at least compete on a night-in, night-out basis. I always care about the outcome of the game. I wasn't so sure the same could be said for the last two years' teams. This team is different than the last two years.

Our defense means we can steal some games against better teams. This team is worthy of our support and love for what it is, and how they are performing in spite of it- not ridiculing for what they are not.

Dan Werner is the same way. His work ethic must have translated to the rest of the team. He's been playing out of position- and been asked to do some things he is not as great at- and his scoring never translated from the high school game (at least not consistently). Instead of getting on Werner for what he can't do, I'd rather support him for what he is. And how that seems to be making an impact in the W column.

Goose, my point is that they were playing "winning basketball" at this point last year, too! My point is that, although this team may be fun for Billy to coach, and this team does have wins against quality competition, this team also has a propensity for poor shooting decisions, blockout gaffes, blown layups and not getting back on defense. What bothers me about Dan is that he has shown to be one of the MAIN GUYS making the questionable decisions that lead to "losing basketball". I know that Billy doesn't have much choice, and I will admit that Dan has had solid games, but I'm tired of seeing the 'lost' Dan Werner. I want to see the confident senior leader that Billy saw when he was a frosh. Heck, I just want the guy to overcome what looks to be acute performance anxiety and function at a higher level. HE CAN DO MORE if he gets over this fear I see, because a calm confidence would also translate to the rest of the team when your guy who's been through the storms calms down and starts to step up. When he starts getting out of this fog of fear, his play will be crisper, and it will help the team execute at an even higher level. Don't get me wrong, I think Dan's doing a much better job than Walter Hodge did last year. Seniors are a conduit that a coach can use to help get players to understand and do their jobs well. They aren't just responsible for playing hard. That's a freshman's job. A senior's job is to play effectively at all times, whether they start or come off the bench. I get your defense of Dan, I really do. I'm just hard on Florida seniors because UF has had some great ones during the Donovan era, even with a short bench. In closing, I also hope that Dan can shake the haters (which I seem to be one of) off and have a successful season.

First of all, you all know nothing about basketball. You may know the gators, but I know the gators and bawketball as I have played competitively for years. I also am a part time coach. You look at the stats. Ask billy d, werner is not a stats guy. He works hard and most importantly plays great defense. Help side defense is most important in our man-zone defense. There is no stat for how many missed help opportunities you gave up. Parsons is a better scorer, but he is a better 6th man also. You all do not understand the game of basketball