** This thread discusses the Content article: Why the Senior Bowl Should Not Effect Tim Tebow's NFL Draft Stock **

Keep dreaming gator fans, because you will never see Timmy leading an NFL team.

If you can't throw an 18 yrd seam route to a tightend or slot reciever then you can't play quarterback in the NFL.

The best part about all of this: most of you probably ripped Vince Young every chance you could.

VY already has a dozen fourth quarter game winning drives in 2 and a half seasons of play. 26-13.

Tebow is much better than Young. He's also much better than Alex Smith.

To think Tebow won't get his chance is asinine.

I just hope he gets in the right situation where he can develop, because no one is saying he's an NFL star today. He has the makeup to be an NFL star tomorrow, with the right development.

Not a Florida fan or a Tebow follower yet I hope he proves all the doubters wrong. The NFL is full of people who never where supposed to make it there according to the so called "experts"... who many have not even attempted a pass in the league.

"Coach, what do you think about Tim Tebow?" "He is who I thought he was. That's why they took the field! Now if you wanna crown him, then crown him, but he is who I thought he was, and I ain't letting him off the hook!"

You make a few good points, and honestly I wasn't surprised by what I saw in the Senior Bowl.
My main argument is that Tim Tebow should not be touched until the third round. He fits the prototypical third rounder, a great athlete who needs 2-3 years of coaching to become a solid NFL player.
I wouldn't touch him at the top end of the draft because in order for him to be close to effective early in his career I would have to write a completely new offense for him.

I hate to say it, but VY was much better than Tebow. He dominated the biggest games, while Tebow was good for putting up numbers against over matched teams but was very mediocre in the biggest games.

If all else fails, Tim Tebow probably could be a better punter than many doing that job right now, with the added dimension that he actually can run and throw. Or a linebacker. Or a running back. Who knows, maybe a tight end. Oh, did I forget -- a quarterback.

The thing about the NFL draft and the transition from college or the minors to the majors is this: No one knows who is going to make it really, really big, or not. Looking across all of North American professional sports, short of a Kareem, a Larry Bird, a Magic Johnson, a Dick Butkus, who knows in advance how big any young athlete is going to be?

The only absolute sure thing at QB I remember over three decades is John Elway. And that was almost thirty years ago. For the rest of them -- even the great Manning -- it's all hindsight.

Tebow will be worth whatever pick is spent on him, because if he can't succeed at quarterback, he will be willing and able to play a position where he can succeed in the NFL.

It is almost amusing the way Tebow is being dismissed before even being given the chance to compete for a position on an NFL team. Forget his weaknesses (which are way-overshadowed by his strengths), and look at some of the quarterbacks playing in the NFL today. How did they get there? By playing more of an "NFL approved style of quarterbacking" in college. It takes alot more than that and Tebow can do it, given the right amount of time and coaching.

Tim Tebow is not better then Vince Young.. VY was nasty at Texas. I agree Tebow should and I believe he will get his shot, but he is not as explosive as Vince Young.. Not a chance

For those of you who think Tebow should be given a chance to complete for a position, he isn't the first person ever in this situation. There have many dozens of QBs coming from college who have had their skills and "NFL readiness" questioned, and most of them (except for maybe Vince Young) have not been successful. Just look at Troy Smith or Pat White a few years back. I understand that Tebow is one of the greatest college QBs of all time, and he has an incredible work ethic, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he doesn't have good mechanics. Yes, he can develop those mechanics, and it has been tried before with other QBs, but it doesn't always work out. No one is saying that he can't be successful, but it would be a real risk for a team to take him early in the draft. Given all that, I think the doubts about Tebow are completely legitimate.

LOL Florida fans are so delusional...If i wanna know the truth about a hack like Teblow then im gonna get a non-biased opinion not one from a website called gatorsfirst.com!!! THis site blows Tebows dick as much as Tebow blows as an NFL QB

Tebow is a different animal than most college stat guys or athlete-types. He has no character issues (Troy Smith, VY, etc. can't say the same) and he definitely isn't undersized (Chase Daniel, etc) and he didn't run a straight up option (Pat White, Eric Crouch, etc.)

When you say he's not going to be a good player, you're saying he won't be able to learn to (1) improve the holes in his game and (2) be successful despite those "shortcomings". I'm not willing to say those things, as the kid seems to have the passion and a work ethic like we have rarely (if ever) seen.

The point of this blog was more to point out that we didn't learn anything about Tebow's NFL readiness we didn't know before the Senior Bowl. Anyone who dropped him in their draft ratings because of his performance in Birmingham should be held accountable for performing awfully at their job up until this past week. Whether you have him rated highly or lowly, I can't see anything new that happened last week really changing that rating.

His stock went down because those who believed he'd be successful saw his flaws, not because we "discovered" what many people already knew. A strange or elongated delivery is a BIG problem for an NFL QB, and cannot be used. David Carr, a great college QB and #1 overall pick, had a sidearm delivery, and that is one major reason that he failed in the NFL. Tebow's delivery isn't just awkward, it's harmful. He's been fortunate to play for a team with a fantastic offensive line for 4 years (though he only really passed for 3 of those years), so the extra half-second it takes him to get rid of the ball was not a problem. However, you did notice this year that even teams as bad as Florida State managed to force a fumble or two from him, and it's because Tebow, while a strong-runner, does not do a great job of protecting the football when he goes to pass. QBs fumble. Hell, Aaron Rodgers's fumble cost the Packers a chance at victory in the Wild Card Round. The thing is, Rodgers fumbled with a pretty-standard delivery and timing. Had it been Tebow, there wouldn't have even been a chance of getting the ball out...Tebow winds up like a starting pitcher and not like a quarterback.

One thing that isn't pointed out about Tebow that will hurt him in the NFL is that he has little speed for a mobile quarterback. QBs like Michael Vick and Daunte Culpepper and Donovan McNabb (at least early in his career before he came into his own as a passer) had the saving grace of being mobile AND strong, allowing them to avoid and bust through NFL defenders. Tebow is a straight-run guy. His offensive line got him 3 yards, he broke 1 tackle, and fell forward for 2-3 more yards. That won't work in the NFL. NFL players are too strong, too fast, and the talent at O-line is too spread-out to be able to pull that off. So, if he can't develop as a passer, and quickly, he'll be sitting on the bench or at home after 3 seasons.

QBs don't get the amount of time to develop now that they used to. JaMarcus Russell has already been ousted (essentially) after going #1 overall, Brady Quinn has never had a full chance after going around #10 overall, and then there are QBs who get drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds who never or barely see the playing field before their team signs and/or drafts another QB (or 2) to replace them (see: Miami Dolphins). College is supposed to prepare you for the real world, and when it comes to QBs, the University of Florida has always failed. Tim Tebow will have his legend in The Swamp, but he'll amount to nothing more than Chris Leak, Rex Grossman, or any other Florida QB ever did in the NFL. It's not because they aren't given the opportunity, it's because the opportunity doesn't last long enough for them to develop the skills other young QBs developed in college.

If someone who is "worth anything as a coach" could correct his throwing motion and turn it into something recognizable as practical and efficient, then why didn't Urban Meyer drop a few hints here and there?

Saying his "work ethic" will automatically make him a good quarterback in the NFL with enough time is ridiculous. Everyone has there talent plateau where they simply cannot get any better at an activity. If he were truly that talented as a passer, don't you think some of that would have shown? He's good at being a big bruiser of a runner who was used to balance out speedy guys who can run the ball outside. In the NFL, that's called a fullback.

His throwing motion was fine for college.

College coaches also get a limited amount of time with players. Tebow worked on the throwing motion with Loeffler, and it may have improved in drills -when he was concentrating on it- but in games he lapsed to his habitual motion. It's correctable, and if it's the only thing lacking in his game (it is) and it's 100% necessary (debatable) someone will get it corrected enough. He doesn't have to have a perfect motion, just a better one, and one that he can use successfully in the NFL game.

You neglected to mention the greatest obstacle facing Tebow: His lack of experience reading defenses. In Florida's spread formation offense, the reads were generally made pre-snap and the pass options were few - generally a primary route and a secondary route. Any other options were improvised on the run.

In the NFL, Tebow is not only going to have to master the footwork involved in dropping back from center, he's going to have to learn to make pre-snap reads AND reads in the pocket. Likewise, NFL offenses have multiple options, not just a primary and secondary receiver. Throw in the fact that NFL defenses are light-years ahead of college defenses in terms of disguising coverages and Tebow has a very steep learning curve.

A more accurate analysis of Tebow's obstacles would be:

1. Learning to read NFL defenses. Going from Florida's spread offense which is predicated on out-talenting opponents to an even playing field of NFL competition is going to be like graduating from kindergarten to Harvard.

2. Bad mechanics. This is something that he may or may not be able to improve and/or overcome. And if it's so easy to correct bad mechanics, then why havent't they been corrected by now given Tebow's work ethic and Meyer's coaching prowess?

If Tebow cannot change and quicken his delivery, NFL DBs are fast enough, smart enough and/or experienced enough to make it extremely difficult for Tebow to get the ball where it needs to go before a DB jumps the route. These guys are going to be licking their chops every time Tebow gets behind center.

3. Inaccuracy. Again, a function of bad mechanics and being able to get away with them against inferior competition in college. Against Alabama and the few other good college defenses he faced, Tebow didn't have the room for error in terms of accuracy. This will be an even bigger problem in the NFL if Tebow doesn't improve drastically.

4. The skills that made Tebow great in college don't necessarily translate to the NFL. His size, strength and speed enabled him to dominate the college game, especially given the talent around him compared to oppponents' talent. Defenses had to respect his ability to run which opened up the passing game. In the NFL, linebackers are bigger, faster and stronger than Tebow, therefore his ability to run is going to be neutralized and defenses will be able to run THEIR gameplan - NOT scheme for Tebow's skillset like college defenses had to.

That said, I have learned never to rule out any prospect's ability to make it at the next level. Tebow has proven that he's a winner in college and that he has good leadership skills. Didn't do much for Gino Toretta, Danny Wuerffel, Ken Dorsey and a whole host of other very successful college QBs who had a world of talent around them at the college level and couldn't translate college success to NFL success, but that doesn't mean Tebow can't overcome the odds.

But they are very long odds.

I sort of excluded some of the arguments concerning "adapting to making NFL reads" and "talent level" as no prospect entering the draft is a lock to be able to do these things, and certainly none of them have played against NFL teams.

I think comparisons with Wuerffel, et al are lazy- because a lot of the reasons they were not high picks were because of physical limitations, which Tebow does not have.

He's certainly a special case and no lock for NFL greatness. No one is.

What separates the guys who make it and the guys who don't (not entirely, but certainly not to such a small level as to be dismissed) are how they handle adversity, how they work to adapt to that next level, and opportunity. We don't yet know if Tebow will go to a good situation as far as his development is concerned. We do know he as well adjusted to handle hard work and adversity as any prospect, ever.

I'm not arguing he should go #1 in the draft. I'm pointing out the laziness of being so dismissive of his chances and making ill-fitting analogies to current and past players. And mostly I'm pointing out the lunacy that his going to the Senior Bowl, and thus not backing away form criticism or a chance to improve, somehow should have lowered his draft stock. I'm pointing out that a week in Mobile didn't expose any new flaws in Tebows game. I'm pointing out that Todd McShay is, in the popular Message Board vernacular, a douche.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. You are an idiot if you think you know more than people who do this for a living. If you could do there job better then you would not be sitting in your moms basement writing bad article like this. This article is a joke

It's not his mom's basement, it's his guest bedroom...

I didn't say I know better than them. I have an opinion that betting against Tebow is a very, very bad bet. But that was secondary to the point of this blog.

The point here was that no one should be able to say 'Tebow's stock dropped after the Senior Bowl'. What the fuck were you watching over the last 4 years if you saw anything new? The only point in making statements like that is to drum up interest. The fact is, the Senior Bowl was largely uneventful as far as proving Tebow's mettle one way or the other. His flaws were there for all to see- but they have been in every game he's played.

All I said was that if someone really had done any sort of work before the Senior Bowl, assigned Tebow some sort of draft stock (which is very much a matter of opinion, and I disclose I have a much different opinion than McShay, et al)... then saw his Senior Bowl performance, and were surprised by anything... well, in that case, you ought to return all the checks you cashed for giving him a rating pre-Senior Bowl, as you obviously didn't do your job.

Also, good call with the Mom's basement thing. It's a highly original way of bashing a blogger. You should have at least realized that few-if any- Florida homes have a basement, due mainly to the surface proximity of the Florida Aquifer. Also, I live in Texas. And often blog from a variety of places in a home I own (paid for by doing things that McShay can't do- doesn't mean I can't disagree with him on a matter of opinion), none of which include a basement... and often in my underwear. Ok, too much detail... back to Tebow.

But really, is it that hard to see that no one learned anything new from the Senior Bowl? And that most analogies drawn between Tebow and other failed college stars are lazy and not applicable? It's not physical concerns, and he's not a risk to wash out by having an awful work ethic once he gets paid. He has poor throwing mechanics. Really, Pop Warner coaches can teach kids to throw, but NFL coaches can't fix something? It's also worth noting that said throwing motion has worked fine for him to this point, so fixing it hasn't been a priority until now.