Being a Gators fan while attending USF has become increasingly annoying the last couple of years. While we won't get into the issues of why I am in Tampa and have not supplanted myself back Gainesville, I would like to explore their differences further with all the faithful here at G1.

The football program here has gotten better since just starting 12 years ago, but students and athletes alike have become too arrogant in my opinion. The students I tend to debate with aren't very intelligent when it comes to any program other than their own. Some people are already proclaiming that the Bulls are on their way to a BCS game! After this Thursday night's game against Cincinnati, I may or may not find that more believable.

I did recently have a debate with a Bulls fan. As you will see after a few spirited exchanges, he was able to come to an realization that even though USF may have defeated FSU this season, that does not greatly boost their national recognition.

The debating occurred between myself and recent USF alum Boy Rush. Here is what transpired:

BOY RUSH: USF is rollin' son....we can beat ANYBODY if we keep playing with the heart and passion we've had in the past 3 weeks...bring on the BCS!

SUNDOWN: HA HA HA, are you delirious? Just look at past history of the Bulls, they always fade. Wasn't it just last year that they started 5-0 and fell down the slippery slope to 8-5? Yes, it was. They have never finished in the Top 25. You have to do that to even think about a BCS berth. The only thing you have going for their heart and passion is their Total Defense numbers, that is about it. The Bulls have yet to be tested this season. And if you try to argue that the FSU game was a tough battle, just look at the numbers and you will see it truly wasn't. Every other team FSU has lost to has scored at least 28 points, and that even includes BYU that they beat. Cincinnati has already beaten 2 quality opponents, one being a significant road win at Oregon State. The Big East is a terribly weak football conference and doesn't even deserve a BCS automatic berth anymore. The Bulls would be shredded by non-AQ teams like Boise State and TCU. I will give you that any team can win any game, but the numbers and history simply aren't in the Bulls favor.

BR: We bombed it the past 2 seasons when given a shot in the polls, that is true. History doesn't always repeat itself though. We are an older and more mature team this season, and powerful defense aside, we have outstanding coaching, and that's what builds dynasties. Remember that we are still a brand new program, this is just our 12th season, and we are already competing with teams that have been around for a century. That's proof of something special in the works in and of itself.
And the Big East isn't a powerhouse, granted, but we are moving in that direction. Teams like Cincy, USF, Pittsburgh, UConn and WVU are all showing up with consistency every season. We have begun building a conference which can already compete with the ACC and Pac-10, and it's only a matter of time before our programs start getting the respect we deserve and are mentioned with SEC and Big XII programs.

SD: This is true that history doesn't repeat itself, but trends usually follow similar lines. Outstanding coaching is a staff that can only get a team 9 wins? Not so much. And I'm sorry, but the whole "baby of a program" excuse doesn't really hold water anymore. Yes the Bulls rose quite quickly into the rankings, so then that provides no excuse as to why since then they haven't gotten better. The difference of who has been around longer and who wins and loses isn't special at all. Cincinnati is the only team that has proven itself among the teams you have mentioned. Pitt, UConn and WV have played consistently good against crappy teams and consistently bad against good teams. The overall conference's non-conference schedule is terribly weak, and until that changes, there is really no comparison to the ACC, Pac-10, Big 10, Big XII or SEC who all have clearly defined national title contenders.

To this he simply replied with a friend request through Facebook with the attached message that said "I like your style man, I'd be happy to agree to disagree on USF at any time with you." Waving the white flag? I'd say yes. OWNAGE! This wasn't a very lengthy debate, mostly because Bulls fans are fairly easy to defeat when it comes to college football debates.

Well anyways, if any of you fellow G1'ers would care to comment on the USF's chances this season and or their national importance I'd sure be interested to read.

Don't forget that the more wins the Bulls get this season will result in more arrogance and trash talking as 9/11/2010 approaches. Some students, who most definitely are in no way involved in the internal affairs of the football program, even claim that Matt Grothe will get a medical waiver and have one more year of eligibility to come to Gainesville to beat the Gators! Just redonkulous!

GO GATORS!

SD

They'll get theirs next September. They don't even register on the national picture at all, and matter even less.

The fact they even get any recognition at all is their lottery ticket type luck that the Big East picked them to fill their void, and then Miami and FSU's recent downturn (combined, sadly, with the Ron Zook era) led to them grabbing more recruits than they were otherwise entitled to. A couple of those panned out, at least enough to win with their regularly weak schedule.

The BCS affiliation seems to have been luck on their part (or perhaps Tampa Bay being a larger TV market than Orlando), otherwise I see no distinction between them and UCF. Some people made noise about UCF a few years back, Corso even put us on 'upset alert'... and we responded with a 42-0 beatdown. Then they cancelled the next season's game.

I'm not predicting 42-0, but even without Tebow and with some top talent probably jumping to the NFL, our vastly superior talent, superior coaching, and homefield advantage means I'll take us and lay the points- no matter what spread Vegas puts on this one.

A Gator "fan" that is a USF student? That does not make one bit of sense on any level.

Therefore, your opinion is completely meaningless.

I do agree with you to a certain extent. There are a lot of arrogant USF fans. They remind me a lot of Gator fans. I know there are exceptions. There good and bad fans everywhere but ... most USF fans are also Gator fans. Most UCF fans are from South Florida and are also Miami fans. It wasn't till recently that Gator fans had a reason to be arrogant (2 National Titles in the last 5 years). If there any fans I would expect to be arrogant but are not ..are FSU fans..(was it like 14 years in the top 5)... Miami fans are a little bit but I think they deserve to act that way because they always play the toughest schedule and win. Miami has played the Gators 7 times since 1986 and won 6 of those times. I think twice after 2002...Why do you think Gators took them off the schedule.

Well I do agree with you that USF's chances are verrrry slim. We will probably get killed. I think the only reason USF might have a chance is they match up pretty well with teams that run the spread offense. If you notice, they were able to pull off big upsets agaisnt teams that did (Auburn ran it the game we played them, West Virginia). The games we get killed extremely bad are teams that run a pro-set offense like Rutgers, Miami, and Pittsburg. So as you can see I'm not your typical USF fan, I'm a realist. I know a couple big wins here and there doesn't mean we made it. I'm hoping Skip Holtz can turn the program around. He was able to win with a lot less talent at ECU. He almost beat Arkansas in the bowl game. The same Arkansas that lost to the Gators 23-20. I know we should never should do a 3 team comparison in football because different teams match up differently..but it goes to show you Florida could be vulnerable (even with all the raw talent they have). I expect Meyer is too good of a coach to let someone upset them in the swamp but ..hey you never know..I'm crossing my fingers that USF can keep it under the Vegas spread...If we can do that, I'll consider it a moral victory lol.

UF dropped Miami because they lost money when they played in Miami before 20 to 30,000 fans. Miami needs UF, but UF doesn't need to support Miami. UF plays in the best conference the SEC. Miami had a chance to join the SEC, but instead chose the weaker ACC, in which Miami has never won the conference championship. The SEC has won the last four National Championships. Miami couldn't handle the SEC.

i predict this game will surprise people

just like fsu-usf

pride comes before the fall, just remember that, so some of u arrogant sh!theads btr shut ur mouths

oh, and you;re not a real gator while going to usf

you are a bandwagoner douchebag

What kind of line can I get on this game? I doubt it will ever get so large that I wouldn't take Florida. Shades of UF-UCF moreso than FSU-USF. Or have you all not seen a UF-FSU game in the last, oh, 6 years?

Also, note the author of the original post is a USF student who attended UF before attending USF.

I don't think it's arrogant to think Florida will win, when they are unquestionably favored. Meyer loves to step on the throat of rivals, in our division and inside the state. Note he's 28-2 against SEC East teams (05 South Carolina, 07 UGA being the lone blemishes) and 9-0 against teams in Florida.

I don't think he's worried about the game, but I also think he's circled it as a statement game to in-state recruits, so he won't allow our guys to overlook even this extremely overmatched team.

So it's been awhile since I've logged on and said anything, but it's definitely time I defend myself bitches.

RE JD77:

Yes I am a Gator fan that was a USF student. I attended UF and then transfered to USF. While I may have graduated from USF, I am still and ALWAYS will be a Gator fan at heart.

When you find some basis that you can defend your claim that my opinion is meaningless, then maybe I'll consider to give any of your future posts a read.

I have 3 questions for you:

1. Do you live in the state of Florida?
2. Did you attend UF or USF for that matter?
3. Did you even attend college?

If your answers for all three questions aren't Yes, then YOUR opinion is meaningless!

RE UsfFan:

I believe fsgator47 addressed your post fairly well, so I will not add to your response.

RE sh:

First off, please answer the 3 above questions posed to JD77. If you answer Yes to all three, which I have my doubts about, you may proceed.

I predict that those surprised by the outcome of this game are foul mouthed idiots that like to TyPe L!k3 tH!ssss.

Comparing the FSU team, or lack thereof, that lost to USF to this year's Gator team is baseless.

Arrogance sounds similar to ignorance, which you seem to display quite well in your post.

I guess your thought must be that wherever someone attends school, you MUST be a fan of that school's team. Using that analogy is like saying "you're not a real American while visiting Cozumel". Anybody is allowed to choose an identity or to affiliate themselves how they please anywhere they go. Considering you don't believe this, you must not be American, therefore you must be a COMMUNIST!

And as far as being a bandwagoner, I believe I have answered that claim above in addition to being backed by my brother goose.

RE goose:

Well put my friend! I am glad to be back around on here. Any one else who cares to take a shot is more than welcome, just be prepared to be smothered like Spikes stopping a tailback behind the line of scrimmage.

First I will call BS on that. I could see the SEC inviting FSU but not Miami because FSU fits the "mold" of an SEC school. I'll believe you once I see some type of reference. Gators NEVER schedule hard out of conference games. They never prove the SEC is the best conference. I do agree the SEC is the best conference but barely. There is A LOT MORE PARODY than what SEC FANS THINK They always had behind the SEC as an excuse. You don't see LSU or Alabama make this excuse. I respect those programs because they always schedule hard out of conference games. Look at the bowl games this past year that the SEC were in. There is a lot more parody than what people think. If you take Alabama and Florida out of the SEC, the league is top heavy just like every other league in the BCS. There is usually one or two really good teams and everyone else is average.

Kentucky 13-Clemson 21 SEC LOST
Penn State 19- LSU 17 SEC LOST
UConn 20-South Carolina 7 SEC LOST
Northwestern 35-Auburn 38 SEC barely beats Big 10 team
OK State 7-Ole Miss 21 SEC WIN
East Carolina 7-Arkansas 20 SEC WIN
Texas A&M 20-Georgia 44 SEC WIN'S BIG
Florida 51-Cincinnati 24 SEC WIN'S BIG
Alabama 37-Texas 21 SEC WIN AGAINST A BACKUP TRU-FRESHMAN QUARTABACK

Yeah if you tell me but UF schedules FSU every year as their hard out of conference game, I won't count that because UF was forced to do that.
If it wasn't for state legislation, they wouldn't even play FSU. They were forced by the state to play FSU.

And despite what conference Miami is in. They owned Florida. Don't tell me Miami couldn't handle it. Probably the greatest team ever was the Miami 2001 team.

17 players from the 2001 Miami football team were drafted in the first-round of the NFL Draft (5 in the 2002 NFL Draft: Buchanon, McKinnie, Reed, Rumph, and Shockey; 4 in 2003:

Miami was known for producing the most NFL talent the last 20 years... so don't tell me they couldn't compete. They owned Florida from 1986 till now. Look at the numbers

From 1986 to 2008, Miami won all six of the games between the schools, including victories in the 2001 Sugar Bowl and the 2004 Peach Bowl. Florida snapped its 23-year drought against Miami with a 26-3 win over the Hurricanes in 2008.


The only time Florida beat Miami is with their greatest team which was in 2008.

Something I want to add. I don't despise the Gators. There are always a fun team to watch..but if there is any team I would USF to model themselves after it's FSU and UM. They had the mentality, we will play anyone anytime, anywhere. They just didn't care. They will beat the crap out of teams in their house. I really respect Miami because they didn't have tradition like FSU or UF but made a name for them selves scheduling the hardest schedule. And even after, they made a name for them selves (5 National Titles), they STILL SCHEDULE HARD OUT OF CONFERENCE GAMES. Their schedule is always rank in the top 5 of the most difficult schedules. So I just thought I add that. Well ..

I'm heading out


The season has begun!

Didn't paste all of the stats from the 2001 Miami team...and just general Miami stats on how much NFL talent they had


In all, an extraordinary 17 players from the 2001 Miami football team were drafted in the first-round of the NFL Draft (5 in the 2002 NFL Draft: Buchanon, McKinnie, Reed, Rumph, and Shockey; 4 in 2003: Johnson, Joseph, McDougle, and McGahee; 6 in 2004: Carey, Taylor, Vilma, Wilfork, Williams, and Winslow; 1 in 2005: Rolle; and 1 in 2006: Kelly Jennings).


Miami Hurricanes in the NFL
Main article: Miami Hurricanes in the NFL

Many Miami players go on to play in the National Football League.[4] The Hurricanes hold the record for most players selected in the first round in a single draft (6, 2004); most first-round draft picks in a two-year period (11, 2003–2004); most first-round draft picks in a three-year period (15, 2002–2004); and most first-round picks in a four-year period (19, 2001–2004).[122] From 1995 through 2008, Miami set an NFL Draft record by having at least one player selected in the first round of 14 consecutive drafts.[4] As of the conclusion of the 2009 regular season, the Hurricanes also hold a record streak of 122 (Week 15–2002) consecutive regular season weeks where a former Miami Hurricane has scored a touchdown in an NFL game.[123] Setting a new record for most players from one school, eleven former Hurricanes were selected to the 2010 Pro Bowl, which happened to take place at Miami's Sun Life Stadium.[124]

I'm going to pile it on since for some reason ...Gator fans do this to me..


ESPN had a tournament called NFL pipeline where they made arguments for which program produced the best NFL Talent. You can guess who won? The U
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5178139


USC is tough to beat, but one fact still remains: Since 1984, Miami has produced more first-round draft picks than any other college and has had at least one player drafted in the first round in 14 NFL drafts between 1995 and 2008, the longest streak in NFL history.

Are we still debating? Since 1979, two Hurricanes -- Jim Kelly and Michael Irvin -- have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Kelly led the NFL in passing in 1990 and led Buffalo to an unprecedented four straight Super Bowl appearances. And Irvin was a three-time Super Bowl champion and set an NFL record with 11 100-yard games in 1995. Ray Lewis, Warren Sapp and Reggie Wayne are just a few of the high-profile Canes who won a Super Bowl. Ottis Anderson won two Super Bowls, was MVP of Super Bowl XXV and retired as the eighth-leading rusher of all time.

The past decade is where Miami edges Southern California, as former Canes have been in 42 Pro Bowls compared with USC's 13. This program's NFL presence stretches from past to present, as four of the top 13 active leading rushers in the NFL are Cane

Well.. I think it's only fair if I call someone out on bullshit. That I should show that I was making up the fact state legislation was needed for UF to play FSU. Here is the info via Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_%E2%80%93_Florida_State_football_rivalry#Roots_of_a_rivalry



A proposed bill mandating that Florida play Florida State in football and other sports was proposed in 1955 but was voted down in the Florida Legislature. However, Florida Governor LeRoy Collins asked president J. Wayne Reitz of the University of Florida to schedule a yearly football series between the two state universities, and the two schools' athletic directors eventually negotiated a contract that started the football series in 1958.

One of the conditions that the University of Florida required was that the early contests be played in the Gators' home stadium, Florida Field in Gainesville, because the Seminoles' then-existing stadium facility was too small. Beginning in 1964, however, the game site has alternated on an annual home-and-away basis between the Gators' home field and the Seminoles' Doak Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee. Well I know I spammed this Forum enough but I only check this every few weeks. You guys can get back at me when you guys rape us next weekend. I'm only hoping for a moral victory. lol. If we keep under the Vegas Spread..I'll be happy.

M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!
M-A-C!

I'm a USF Bull til the end but have lots of family connections within UF. I think its immature to just totally trash USF. I believe the game will start out slow for both teams but after half time the Gators will pull off and win. However, its ignorant to overlook an up-and-coming team such as the Bulls. We have an excellent line up and with a few more years experience we will be noticed on a much larger scale.

Double A! Double A!

RE: UsfFan

I think you got lost on a whole tangent. You keep talking about NFL players, however we are talking about COLLEGE programs.

And why care so much about Miami anyways if you are a USF fan? Oh, maybe it's because they are gonna make USF their bitch too this season.

The reason I bring up how much NFL talent they have.. because that is how you know how great your team was in college. The problem with the SEC, people just say they are the best based on how many 4-5 star high school athletes they have. The problem is.. sometimes these players don't end up being so great in the NFL. Sometimes, these SEC teams are not great collectively. It's based on perception. I agree, they might be the best conference..but it's greatly exaggerated. Like... look at the Saints who won the super bowl. I read an article where this guy said 80% of that team were 3 star athletes or lower in college. Oh yeah.. and your comment about Miami..you are right.. they will rape us again probably. .. Just like they did Florida the last 20 years .. So USF does have something in common with UF. Look at this weekend... Ole Miss loses to Jacksonville State and Florida struggled against a team that one game last year. I'm not saying Florida is not a great team ..but I can't wait for a College Football Playoff because it's getting old how Florida can just hide behind the SEC banner forever. Like I said, I know what USF is. We are just an up and coming program. We have a long way to go. Oh yeah.. here is an article I know you will like


Florida, Ole Miss Prove SEC Greatness Exaggerated
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/451371-florida-ole-miss-prove-southeastern-conference-greatness-exaggerated

I'm going to go out a limb and try to make a prediction for next week we play you guys at the Swamp. I'm not going to say we will win but .. I'm going to try and do a 3-team comparison to see how well we do. If Miami beat us 31-10 with a spread of 21 points. I say USF keeps it under that against UF. Hey can you guys ask Meyer to start Pouncy again...and tell him to have a few bad snaps so we have a fighting chance.

RE: UsfFan

Qualifying a college team's greatness by how many players went on to the NFL and how many 4 or 5 star recruits they have are two completely unrelated ways to do so. For the former, yes you can say that the school/team had a lot of great players. And the latter, you can say that that school/team had a lot of great potential.

Here's a generic example comparison: "Man last year's team was good, they had 7 guys drafted by the NFL." "Yeah our team last year was pretty good too, they had 6 guys drafted by the NFL."

Wanna know the difference between these two teams? Well the team with 7 guys drafted was National Champion Alabama who went undefeated. The 6 draft pick team? Well that was mediocre Tennessee team that went 7-6 in 2010.

Even if you draw out your NFL to school's greatness comparison over several years, that does not mean a college team was great. Wins, Losses and National Championships are what make a college team great. I will admit that yes having guys that went on to NFL stardom made for a greater likelihood of winning in college, but it certainly does not directly correlate.

And I'm not quite sure where you interpret that Florida is hiding behind the banner of the SEC. Since the 90's when Florida came to prominence, they have been the one carrying that banner quite often.

Sorry SunDown.... I should of added more to that. Yeah I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. That if a College team has NFL talent alone..that doesn't make it a great college football team. It's a combination of Wins, National Championships, and the raw talent that was on that team. That is a reason I love football, some times a team can look good on paper but not be dominant. For example, a few years ago..you would think the San Diego Chargers would be Super Bowl Champs based on the talent they had on paper but the New England Patriots won with maybe two Pro Bowlers...They were collectively better as a whole..which makes football kick ass. ..Coaching means a lot in football. ..so I agree.. it's a combination of things that make a team great. Miami had 5 national titles..

I think the two greatest college teams was the 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers and 2001 Miami Hurricane team. Both those teams had an undefeated record and had a but load of talent that eventually went to the NFL. I'm not saying the Gators are bad.. I just don't like their athletic director. It seems over the years Gators have a reputation of not scheduling hard out of conference games. Like I said earlier.. they were forced to play FSU. Unlike the Gators, Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, and Georgia always schedule hard out of conference games. I just want the Gators to do the same. Do it like the 2004 USC team did..where they traveled to Auburn and just dominated.. It's something as a college football fan..would love.. I would love for USC (Southern Cal) to play the Gators...That would be the highest rated College Football Game since the Texas - USC game...I'm pretty bad at rambling..but I think you get the gist of where I'm going..I love seeing great match ups in college football. Next weekend, I'm going to be in heaven. Outside of USF playing you guys.. it's FSU playing Oklahoma, Miami at Ohio State, Penn State at Alabama... like..it's insane..

Hey Sundown..

One more thing to add. The reason I started to go on this long rant on how much NFL talent Miami Hurricanes have sent to the NFL was because someone's original post saying Miami could never compete in the SEC. When you here commentators say the SEC is the best conference.. they always use the argument about how much NFL talent is from the SEC. They will say things like the SEC is a mini-NFL. So that was kind of the basis of my argument with Miami. It just made me laugh that someone would say they couldn't compete in the SEC when they had teams were the whole roster pretty much got drafted in the NFL. Same thing with the last great USC team under Pete Carrol. SEC fans love to bash that team but they had almost like 20 people on that roster that got drafted in the NFL. You can fault a team for being another conference and just say for the sake of saying..that team couldn't handle the SEC. A good team is a good team. You measure it by the talent they had..and like you said.. wins..national titles....how well they are coached.. because just because a team has NFL raw talent doesn't mean they are the best team collective....they have to be coached well

Ok, let's get one thing straight. The SEC is the best conference because they win. Period. Since the inception of the BCS, the SEC has won 6 championships out of 12, including the last four. This number could have been 7 if Auburn was given the chance in 2004.

Back to Florida's scheduling. This notion that we don't want to play anyone out of conference is puzzling. We play Florida State every year. It's not our fault that they've sucked over the past 6 years. This year we play your South Florida Bulls, who have been at or near the top of another BCS conference for the past 4 years. That's on top of the SEC schedule.

If you look at the schedule rankings for the past 7 years, Florida's is right there at the top.

2003 - #1
2004 - #49
2005 - #32
2006 - #1
2007 - #6
2008 - #5
2009 - #13

The Gators should and probably will win, which means they also have everything to lose in this match up.

If the Bulls lose, it was expected. If they win, they are the heroes.

The Gators and their fans should be very wary of any team that has nothing to lose.

Until they are beaten repeatedly by in-state foes, they will always have everything to lose in Florida. This is nothing new, and all current and future Gators know that when they arrive in Gainesville. Urban has built that, and I don't see that changing any time soon...

to the original poster

yes, i currently go to usf, yes i go to college,
and thirdly, f*ck u biyatch

who the f*ck are u to call me arrogant?

this is probably the only place you have the guts to call anyone out, because if it was in person, i guarantee you that you would run and hide like a little b*tch

and at least i display loyalty to my school, not like you and the unfortunate fools that think by wearing gator shirts, they will be treated like gator brethren

whatever the reason was, you didn't attend uf, so now you are stuck between not being a real gator and not being a real bull

and you must be some right-wing nutjob for calling me a commie

RE: sh

Obviously the strength that got you into college wasn't reading comprehension. If you forgot, you were the one calling Gator fans arrogant. Then I said arrogance sounds like ignorance, which is what you display quite well. I was calling you ignorant.

I would easily call you out on person. The person that has no balls is the one that will accuse others of not having guts to try to call someone out. Nice job trying to be an INTERNET TOUGH GUY! I have no reason to hide.

You obviously didn't read that I went to UF before transferring to USF for reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion. There are other people on here that have already confirmed that. I am a real Gator, and I feel sorry for you being full of BULLshit.

As far as the commie comment goes, that was just a little sarcasm. Sorry that it struck a bad chord with you. I am not the least bit interested in positioning myself as either right or left or any of the above. Politics just plain suck and its all corrupted.

ok,
im sorry that i targeted this post, just tired of usf being trashed on youtube and such

no hate towards you and/or uf, think its a great school and my bro goes there, but tired of the people that just wear gator shirts cuz they think they are gators

i did misread, accept my apology about that and my extended hand of peace

lets end this now

Hopefully, we'll end this on Saturday...

sh,

Your offering of peace is accepted. And along with Mav, I agree, this will all be over on Saturday. At least the pre-game trash talking haha.

Then of course all kinds of hellfire is going to rain down from one side afterwards, although not from myself. I am not one that when on the winning side goes "see, I told you so!" and rub it in the faces of the opposition.

I have enjoyed the spirited debate though!